Put down the potato salad and deviled eggs for just a few minutes and click on THIS LINK to read my esteemed colleague Brian’s post about the five-album stretch R.E.M. dished out from 1988-1998 for a few minutes. Brian came out swinging yesterday in his Lazy Saturday post, and a good portion of today will be spent arguing or, possibly, cementing his bold statement that no other band recorded five records of material as noteworthy as Michael Stipe and crew during this time period. Likewise, as the concept of the album fades away in our more modern music world, is it even possible for a band to produce five gems of greatness in a row without either changing ethos to hit mainstream standards or throwing a gutterball at least once in the mix?
If you’re going to agree with Brian, you’re going to have to first admit a few things about your listening tastes during the late 80′s to late 90′s. Let’s face it, there were several musical shifts going on in this time period, and if you were an R.E.M. fan, at least in my world, you were a dork. Yes, this is probably blasphemous, considering most of our readership was weened on this sort of college rock/politically charged early emo shit, but I was a rock fan in the 90′s. Arguably, when R.E.M. produced the video for “Losing My Religion,” any shred of “rock” associated with them got tossed out the window. Stipe waving his arms around and that terribly rendered symbolic narrative with the winged chick is all I can think about. It revolts me. I can listen to the super early R.E.M. material and absolutely love it. However, the entire Out of Time record was laughable to me, even as an 8th grader. It was all cliche and the emotional sentiment embedded in the lyricism was contrived and lacked any sort of edginess that former, more raw R.E.M. music exhibited. Out of Time was actually R.E.M.’s deathnail for people like me, so I cannot possibly steer anywhere near agreement with Brian on this one. I can respect his point, but not agree with it. In fact, the bands Brian brings up for comparison in his post are extremely valid, and almost serve to negate his argument. I could write a hefty thesis about how Radiohead’s five album run during this time shouldn’t even be mentioned in comparison to R.E.M.’s. Brian uses Amnesiac as the hinging point that moves Thom Yorke’s brilliance out of running, and this is mildly psychotic. I’d take Amnesiac over any of the five records R.E.M. produced during this span. As I said in the beginning of this post, it probably depends on what your tastes were during your early teens (assuming a lot of our readership is 28-35, as young bucks don’t read this many words in one sitting). For me, it was about the sneer of rock n’ roll and always was. I can even get behind some of the comments from yesterday’s post referring to The Talking Heads and their output. I even like that stuff better. To me, R.E.M. represents a whiny cliche, a sort of “this is what indie music looks like” for the masses.
Brian gets the benefit of being “sorta indie” way back in middle school. I most certainly was not, and even if I agree with and understand R.E.M.’s influence on the music I currently review daily, I still would have shoved an REM fan in a locker way back then. In 8th grade I was a killer DJ (heavy sarcasm), spinning tunes for our awesome cake and ice cream makeout parties and the three most requested tracks by girls were “Losing My Religion,” “One” (U2) and “Under the Bridge.” This is entirely relevant to mention because everyone always speaks to how Michael Stipe and Bono’s outfits never sold out. I call a major bullshit here, and anyone who was socially adjusted in the early 90′s knows that these were the top songs in the country. The graphic above shows the pretty well discussed record sales slide REM has experienced since Out of Time‘s release in 1996. Of the five album arc Brian refers to, I owned three of the five, but disliked each equally for the same reasons I’ve already mentioned. If REM never sold out, then what was the early 90′s for them? Some kind of earth shattering revelation in music that forced the masses to suddenly buy cool and relevant music in droves? Impossible. Arguably, Alice in Chains’ run of recorded material is as staunch as any. For a rock fan during this time period, I choose this run as my favorite. While every release wasn’t an LP, the five release run of Facelift, Dirt, Jar of Flies, Alice in Chains, and Alice in Chains – Unplugged, is absolutely stellar. Was Alice in Chains simply mainstream or a prime example of period-piece music? I really have never thought so, and as the years whittle away, these five releases will always hold plenty of water. I know Brian will argue that this can’t count because of technicality – The unplugged album wasn’t really a studio release and Jar of Flies was an acoustic EP where most tracks were included on other albums. Nonetheless, I’ve always felt that these albums were actually underrated, despite the immense success they all had. The use of dropped-d tuning on big old jumbo Guilds in the Unplugged set created the signature Alice in Chains sound that I’ve not once heard duplicated before or since. Name one band that has successfully copied this sound and aura. It won’t happen. Possibly the closest ripoff in recent memory is Days of the New, and that material doesn’t even come close. In the plugged in material, the tandem delivery of Cantrell and Staley will forever be a part of 90′s history, and the duo, in my opinion, did more to shift the landscape of rock n’ roll than Kurt Cobain did. It’s the Alice In Chains look, appeal, sound, and ruthless sludge that still sprinkles itself into darker rock n’ roll today.
So after all this rambling, I guess all I wanted to do was disagree with R.E.M.’s five album run because for me, none of it stuck. I found Michael Stipe whiny and flaky. I found it contrived and grating, even when I was fumbling through those early years of adolescence. It also depends on what strands of music you were listening to during this time. For many, the college radio genre was huge and as Mission of Burma, Dino Jr. and some of those seminal bands rise again in popularity, it makes you look super cool and genius-like. For others, we were hell-forged deep into the rock scene and would have gladly taken Use Your Illusion over any pretentious stuff. For me, I was that rock fan and I can’t ignore it when debating things like this. In fact, I’ll probably roll through that MTV-Unplugged set Alice in Chains did just for old time’s sake. In that regard, I love this type of debate as there really is no clear answer. An even cloudier and tense discussion might ensue if the 1978-2003 timeframe was expanded to present day. The White Stripes run is currently remarkable and I know I’d choose that over R.E.M’s run too. Damn Brian and his requirements.
As far as the Radio Dick post today, we here at Citizen Dick wish you all a safe and happy Labor Day. This big long weekend is just what the Dr. ordered for Brian, Justin, and I as the first couple of weeks in the classroom have been pretty hectic. The 12 song mix here is pretty fresh and new, many of the tracks on upcoming albums we’re digging big time. The Clientele is currently hitting me in all the right places, and we’re stoked to review it proper. Enjoy the tunes for today, chime in on my blasphemous Alice In Chains opinion, and be sure to tune in all week as we’ve got plenty of emerging music reviews on the way.
Fever Ray – Seven (Martyn’s Seventh Mix)
These United States – I Want You to Keep Everything









Allow me to retort:
1. Selling records isn’t the same thing as selling out. Selling out is appearing in films to sell more records, collaborating with washed up mainstreamers to build buzz and filming hour long commercials on cable channels. (Alice in Chains on stage in the, admittedly awesome, Singles, Elton John appearing on Alice in Chains’ upcoming record, Alice in Chains on MTV’s Unplugged, respectively)
2. Kevin was “hell-forged deep into the rock scene” with Use Your Illusion and he’s giving me shit about listening to records that other people bought.
3. I probably blew it on Radiohead. But. The two classic albums in that stretch are OK Computer and Kid A; a lot of Radiohead is mythmaking on their part and the media’s. Was Hail to the Thief very good? Not really, but it’s political so we say it is.
4. People don’t go see Mission of Burma and Dinosaur Jr. to congratulate themselves on being cool. They go to see these bands because they’re amazing. (More on Burma on Monday, but, suffice it to say, dudes still have their fastball.)
5. Longevity counts. It’s not a silly requirement to talk about greatness over an extended period of time. If that dude could have kept the needle out of his arm, maybe we could talk about Alice in Chains as being an all time great; instead we’ve got a couple of great records from a band that should have made more. Same thing’s true for Nirvana and Nick Drake and Jimi Hendrix (and so on). Band of Gypsies is the best live record ever made, but that dude couldn’t stay straight. That has to count.
6a. What the hell is a deathnail? I know death knell, but not deathnail. Is this because I’m a dork? Is it some sort of “hell-forged” rock word that I would have learned if I didn’t spend all my time listening to records for pussies?
6b. “It revolts me” is non-grammatical. “Revolt” is to fill with distaste; “It fills with distaste me?” Of course not. “It is revolting to me” is the one that works. Again, is my tendency to harp on standard constructions a product of my wussified record collection? Do I even have a wussified record collection? I listen to way more Minor Threat than Kevin does. Is that for candy asses too? Could we count Ian MacKaye’s five record stretch across Minor Threat and Fugazi in the conversation? Is Red Medicine as good as Jar of Flies? Would Fugazi ever be on MTV for an hour and then sell the product? Do any of these questions matter?
Really the questions don’t matter because it’s a difference in childhood taste, that’s all lol. Obviously I put Brian in defense mode and that wasn’t the goal. Should have placed an editor’s note mentioning that we all disagree often on the merits of music. To retort back:
1. I agree that selling records isn’t the same thing as selling out. Although, it is difficult to argue that REM was huge in 1991 man. At least in the possibly narrow world I lived in, REM was for the girls. I owned 3 of the 5 albums you include in the list so I’m hardly naive. I just think this is the image that I hold of REM. Many people do, I’d imagine. They did swing for the record sales during that run, and I’m sure if I went back a little I could find some advertisements running REM music and all of the things you mentioned, as well. Wasn’t Michael Stipe in a bunch of movies around that time? I could be wrong.
2. I admittedly bought records other people bought in the late 80′s. I was as mainstream as they come, with the exception of probably early RHCP, Husker Du and my intense fandom of classic rock. In that time period, GNR and REM were both huge respectively, but the fan base for each was entirely different. All I was stating is that I wasn’t on the REM side so I cannot possibly agree with the statement.
3. Not downgrading any of the seminal bands at all man. I just wasn’t from that niche and didn’t listen to that stuff way back then. In a retrospective glance, personal attachment is obviously going to enter the discussion. It has to.
4. Longevity does count dude. You won’t hear me argue that.
5. Death nail is my informal mixture of “Death Knell” and “Nail in the Coffin.” I’ve always used this.
6. Word on the grammar with “revolts.” Pretty picky my friend lol. I did correct your’s openly the other day so what’s fair is fair.
Editor’s Note: Brian and I are still friends. I promise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiIPW6T5w18
I don’t even like R.E.M., but Brian wins. The counterargument is all “but! but! but!” without a counterpoint. Michael Stipe is whiny, but you can’t knock him for that and then laud Thom Yorke.
I’ve never known a girl who was into R.E.M. Also: weened?
Hey all
Just wanted to put it out there. We are a Grunge Tribute/Performance Act/Parody from LA,Cali. We play all Grunge tunes, mostly from Seattle, but of course some related bands as well… Verbatim! No parody lyrics… just lots of antics and goofiness on stage. Poking fun at the pseudo-culture/lifestyle/fashion/Lexicon and the likes of an era that broke way for the music of today… Come check it out or even come check out a show if you are in the area. We will be coming your way soon enough. May 14th @ NeoMeze’ in Pasadena… 2 sets starting at 9pm…
DICK!